HILFE Zündbox für BROS MK2

This sounds like the famous 5000rpm issue that Japanese Broses have when you try to remove the 180Km/h restriction by taking the tacho off. Are you sure he still has the OEM tachometer in place?

Zitat von "Dirk"

Nein , hat er nicht , er hat eine PC31 Front und da diese keinen Tachoantrieb hat , wird er wohl einen Digitalen Tacho haben.

Was kann er tun ? den originalen Tacho unter den Tank legen und anschließen , oder einen Teil des Tachos ?

There has been a lot of discussion about this in the UK hawklist. I did not follow it very closely, because I never had this problem. I'll ask around and I'll come back to you.

Dirk,

does he still have the OEM instruments, or have they gone on Ebay?

Ok, hab Anfrage zum Teilehändler geschickt.
Ich denke, der kann helfen!

Years ago, when the bros was in its prime, you used to be able to get a small electronic de-restrictor device that dealt with this problem. A quick search on the net produced no results, however, so I wonder if you can still find them...

This is what I got from the UK list so far:

Zitat

Please see extract from previous email from some time ago:

Removing the speedo *may* not let your bike rev. over 7k rpm.
Basically the CDI thinks you're in 180kph+ territory and shuts off
signal to the rear cylinder (or something like that). I say *may*
because it appears that the PCB that controls all this (bolted to the
side of the speedo) is different between models (we're talking mk1
650s here). My bike, a 91 reg's mk1 seems to have a speed/rev
limiter, whilst an '88 does not. I have comparison pics if anyone's
interested.

The simplest thing to do is to remove the PCB and replug it, mounting
it inside your headlight housing. This way it always thinks you're in
sub 180kph mode and all is well. Of course you do have to totally
dismantle the speedo - personally I like breaking stuff. There's
*probably* a way of doing this with a couple of resistors bridging
the wires to replicate the PCB. I managed to blow a fuse whilst
attempting this and wisely decided to leave it for another day. Interestingly, blowing the fuse to the rev counter fools the cdi into thinking the rev counter is missing and you get rubbish running again.

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My friend Al confirms the above:

Zitat

Hi Vassilis

When I ditched my mk1 speedo last year (for a pushbike speedo) a
similar thing happened (though I seem to remember it was farther up the
rev. range). Anyway unscrewing the little pcb from the side of the oe
speedo and wrapping it in bubble wrap, replugging and sticking it back into
the headlight shell seemed to do the trick. Maybe your mate can try
give it a try?

For what it's worth, I tried a pcb from a different Bros first (to
avoid breaking a complete speedo) - didn't work, not even all mk1s are
the same, it seems. Apparently you can achieve a similar result with a
few resistors if you're clever that way.

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These were all MK1 pre PGM Broses. I am trying to find out if it is the same with the PGM ones. Either way, your friend, needs to plug in the OEM speedo and give it a try.

Kannst mal ein Bild der Pickups unten an der KW machen ?
Oder haste nen Fiche davon ?
Könnte mir vorstellen, daß irgendwelche Affenbauteile passen könnten.

Bin mal gespannt, welche genialen Unterschiede dieses Modell noch aufweist. Gabel ist auch anders.. Cartridge nur mit allen Tricks möglich, das Ding ist länger als alles was aufm Markt ist.

Here's more info on how the restriction works and how to trick it.

Zitat

Hi All,

Tonight I fitted my Hawk GT MPH Speedo. As some of you will recall I
tried
this before, but hit some running problems. To recap for the benefit of
the
archives.

The MK2 Bros suffers from the Jap govt. imposed speed limit of 180KPH
(112
mph). This speed restriction is achieved by placing a small sensor
inside
the Speedo head. Once the Speedo gets round to 180KPH it cuts across an
infra red sensor, this signals the CDI unit to cut the power to one of
the
coils. If any of you have a MK2 Bros that will reach that speed, you
will
have noticed it starts to hesitate and won’t pull past that.

There are ways around this. You can dismantle the Speedo, and bend back
the
little metal protrusion that cuts across the infrared sensor. No cut in
signal = no restriction. The downside is you have to prise off the
Speedo
bezel, which can spoil it, unless you are very careful.

The other way is to fit a "black box". This tricks the bike into
thinking it
never reaches 180kph and again no speed restriction occurs.

If you fit a HawkGt MPH Speedo, then this has no sensor to "adjust" or
bypass with a Black box. Again you have two options. You can dismantle
your
KPH Speedo and remove the infrared sensor assembly. You will then need
to in
case this in some sort of box, and fit it along with your new Speedo.
Or,
again, you can fit a black box.

To use my Hawk GT Speedo, I decided to get a black box. The one that
fits,
is the same one that fits the VFR/RVF/CBR400. A Company called JEM
Electronics manufactures these. Until now "JEM Electronics REV
BOOSTERS"
were only sold through M&P for £47.50 plus P&P. As M&P are now in
receivership, JEM now sells their black boxes on Ebay. I got mine for
£27.00; I have seen them make £35.00+.

I have now spoke with James Mallett who is JEM Electronics, he said
basically you can try a punt on Ebay. Or, for those that do not wish to
use
Ebay, you can buy direct from him for £30.00 inc P&P. James can be
reached
by email at james.mallett@ntlworld.com or you can send him a cheque.
HBON
Members will receive a 10% discount, so will get them for £27.00 inc
P&P
(see newsletter for details on how to order). Here's James mailing
address.

James Mallett
108 Southwell Road East
Rainworth
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
NG21 0EL

Cheers

Dave.

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Here's the wiring diagram of the PGM model.

http://pic17.picturetrail.com/…584/7342256/233925142.jpg

So basically, Dirk, your friend has to:

a) Fit the OEM clocks back on and try to see in the 5000rpm stumble disappears. This will confirm that the CDI unit is not Kaputt and that the problem actually is with the restriction.

b) If the OEM clocks are not available. You'll have to contact this James Mallett from JEM Electronics to get one of his de-restriction devices to see if this fixes the problem.

c) If the above fail, and the problem lies in the CDI Unit I happen to know where you can get one from the Bros 400 PGM model, which should work on the 650 (The non PGM Bros 400 CDI works fine on the non PGM 650 bike). If it comes to this, send me a PM and I'll give you more details.

Let me know either way what happens and if the problem has been solved.

One last thing.

The restriction device in the OEM speedo looks like this:

[Blockierte Grafik: http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/DefTrap/bros_limiter-91.jpg]

or like this:

[Blockierte Grafik: http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/DefTrap/bros_limiter-88.jpg]

Special thanks to the UK Hawklist people who were so quick to share all this information.
Maybe somebody could collect all these posts, make one document out of them and post it in the "Artikel" section for future reference.

Jo, hab auch Info aus England bekommen.
PGM Black Box ist available für 70 Pfunds

Aha! (smacking forehead) This just occurred to me. The 400 broses were never capable of
doing more than 180Km/h. Therefore, I am pretty sure Honda did not bother to include this limiting circuit in their CDI. Now, I know that a non-PGM
400 CDI works great on the non-PGM 650, because I have two of them running one (it even raises the redline by about 1000 rpm). I guess, this is the reason why I never encountered this 180km/h bullshit...

I wonder what will happen if you take the PGM 400 CDI and put it on a
650 PGM bike (rubbing chin)... It may just solve the problem altogether! If Fabian can source such a 400 CDI for 70 pounds, it might be worth a try.